Comments on: Going to a Tea Party? http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/ Looking for Rivendell in Rochester, NY Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:07:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Shannon http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32420 Shannon Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:33:37 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32420 I went to the Tea Party in Cincinnati, OH. I had also attended the Tea Party we had here on March 15th as well -- my husband and 3 kidlets in tow. I have been politically "interested" for my entire adult life, but not really politically active (sure, I always vote, and attended rallies during election cycles.... make a few phone calls, donate a little bit of money, but that really had been the extent of my involvement....). I am like most of the folks attending the rallies -- have spent most of my life too busy earning my living and raising my family to be out demonstrating. But, I have become frightened at how out of control things have become in just the last 2 months. I agree wholeheartedly with Travis -- I am frightened at how badly things are going under Obama. I understand that he inherited a mess -- however, the social engineering, the "can't waste a good crisis" to push through agendas, the fear mongering, the total lack of asking anyone to be accountable for the poor decisions they have made (except for CEOs of businesses in the limelight).... this is all very scary. And to me, the scariest thing is the swiftness of it all..... Anyway, just thought I would join the conversation, but rambling a bit here. I follow the discussions closely over at the Hogs Head, and was very glad to check out your personal blog, Travis! Shannon I went to the Tea Party in Cincinnati, OH. I had also attended the Tea Party we had here on March 15th as well — my husband and 3 kidlets in tow. I have been politically “interested” for my entire adult life, but not really politically active (sure, I always vote, and attended rallies during election cycles…. make a few phone calls, donate a little bit of money, but that really had been the extent of my involvement….). I am like most of the folks attending the rallies — have spent most of my life too busy earning my living and raising my family to be out demonstrating. But, I have become frightened at how out of control things have become in just the last 2 months. I agree wholeheartedly with Travis — I am frightened at how badly things are going under Obama. I understand that he inherited a mess — however, the social engineering, the “can’t waste a good crisis” to push through agendas, the fear mongering, the total lack of asking anyone to be accountable for the poor decisions they have made (except for CEOs of businesses in the limelight)…. this is all very scary. And to me, the scariest thing is the swiftness of it all…..
Anyway, just thought I would join the conversation, but rambling a bit here. I follow the discussions closely over at the Hogs Head, and was very glad to check out your personal blog, Travis!

Shannon

]]> By: revgeorge http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32411 revgeorge Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:59:58 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32411 So, did anyone actually get to a tea party, & if so, what'd you think? So, did anyone actually get to a tea party, & if so, what’d you think?

]]> By: revgeorge http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32386 revgeorge Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:36:13 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32386 Scott, I didn't think you were directing it at me. I just wanted to be clear on my part that I have no personal animosity towards Bush. In fact, I was quite pleased with his efforts on pro-life issues. But, on the whole, his policies on a whole range of issues have been detrimental to America, imo. But you are right that there were tons of people who did evince a vitriolic hatred towards him for no apparent reason. Just as I'm sure there will be plenty of people who do the same to Obama. I'm sure there's quite a few reasons for it, but I think the shallowness of our society nowadays & the tendency of people to emote rather than think plays a big role. I still don't buy your point totally about Bush's agencies stopping plots. They wouldn't have done that anyway? Pretty much all the main agencies existed before Bush. But I suppose we could quibble about that all day. As for the two party system, my thoughts on it are summed up from a Treehouse of Horror skit from The Simpson's. The two aliens Kang & Kodos impersonate Bob Dole & Bill Clinton during an election to take over the earth. When they're discovered, they say, "What are you going to do; it's a two party system?" A man says, "Well, I'll just vote for a 3rd party." "Sure, throw away your vote," the aliens scoff. Later as the earthlings are toiling in slavery, Homer says in response to Marge's complaints about the situation, "Don't blame me; I voted for Kodos." Scott, I didn’t think you were directing it at me. I just wanted to be clear on my part that I have no personal animosity towards Bush. In fact, I was quite pleased with his efforts on pro-life issues. But, on the whole, his policies on a whole range of issues have been detrimental to America, imo.

But you are right that there were tons of people who did evince a vitriolic hatred towards him for no apparent reason. Just as I’m sure there will be plenty of people who do the same to Obama. I’m sure there’s quite a few reasons for it, but I think the shallowness of our society nowadays & the tendency of people to emote rather than think plays a big role.

I still don’t buy your point totally about Bush’s agencies stopping plots. They wouldn’t have done that anyway? Pretty much all the main agencies existed before Bush. But I suppose we could quibble about that all day.

As for the two party system, my thoughts on it are summed up from a Treehouse of Horror skit from The Simpson’s. The two aliens Kang & Kodos impersonate Bob Dole & Bill Clinton during an election to take over the earth. When they’re discovered, they say, “What are you going to do; it’s a two party system?” A man says, “Well, I’ll just vote for a 3rd party.” “Sure, throw away your vote,” the aliens scoff. Later as the earthlings are toiling in slavery, Homer says in response to Marge’s complaints about the situation, “Don’t blame me; I voted for Kodos.”

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32385 Travis Prinzi Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:29:55 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32385 I agree that there is an irrational hatred of Bush out there, and it's often ugly. I don't share that hatred or think he's a horrible person, but I still think he was a horrible president. His policies were disastrous for this country economically, and I don't think it much matters that we were kept safe for 7 years. I know that's a big statement, but my reason for it is this: I think the policies that kept us safe and resulted in breaking up a few attacks (I honestly doubt there were very many) are the same ones that will continue to motivate terrorists to keep trying and eventually succeed. As Ron Paul is fond of saying, and he's right - they don't hate us to the point of attacking us just because we're free and prosperous. We were free and prosperous for lots of years before they bothered trying to attack us. They hate us because we're over there meddling in affairs that we have no business being involved in. I agree that there is an irrational hatred of Bush out there, and it’s often ugly. I don’t share that hatred or think he’s a horrible person, but I still think he was a horrible president. His policies were disastrous for this country economically, and I don’t think it much matters that we were kept safe for 7 years. I know that’s a big statement, but my reason for it is this: I think the policies that kept us safe and resulted in breaking up a few attacks (I honestly doubt there were very many) are the same ones that will continue to motivate terrorists to keep trying and eventually succeed.

As Ron Paul is fond of saying, and he’s right – they don’t hate us to the point of attacking us just because we’re free and prosperous. We were free and prosperous for lots of years before they bothered trying to attack us. They hate us because we’re over there meddling in affairs that we have no business being involved in.

]]> By: Scott Francken http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32383 Scott Francken Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:08:38 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32383 Revgeorge, I wasn't intending to direct that comment at you, more of a general statement. I agree, it would be a leap of logic to claim that if there was no other information on it. But there were a number of publicized cases where Bush's agencies prevented new events. There were several tries at hijacking planes, there was a group that was working on building a dirty bomb, there were some people that, IIRC, were trying to plan some kind of attack against a military base on the east coast. I would guess there was more that they could not publicize because it would compromise intelligence operations, but that's just my opinion. We won't know for sure until all that stuff gets declassified in, what, 50 years? My main point, was that I hear a lot of people around me directing hatred on a very personal level at GWB, and I don't understand it. I can disagree with someone philosophically without hating them personally. Back to the original topic, I would really like to see a good Libertarian candidate make a serious run at the White House. I suspect that the only way they would have a chance would be to go through one of the two big parties. Ross Perot's run notwithstanding, I think there are too many people in this country that will only look at the big 2 parties. Revgeorge, I wasn’t intending to direct that comment at you, more of a general statement.
I agree, it would be a leap of logic to claim that if there was no other information on it. But there were a number of publicized cases where Bush’s agencies prevented new events. There were several tries at hijacking planes, there was a group that was working on building a dirty bomb, there were some people that, IIRC, were trying to plan some kind of attack against a military base on the east coast. I would guess there was more that they could not publicize because it would compromise intelligence operations, but that’s just my opinion. We won’t know for sure until all that stuff gets declassified in, what, 50 years?

My main point, was that I hear a lot of people around me directing hatred on a very personal level at GWB, and I don’t understand it. I can disagree with someone philosophically without hating them personally.

Back to the original topic, I would really like to see a good Libertarian candidate make a serious run at the White House. I suspect that the only way they would have a chance would be to go through one of the two big parties. Ross Perot’s run notwithstanding, I think there are too many people in this country that will only look at the big 2 parties.

]]> By: revgeorge http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32375 revgeorge Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:24:37 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32375 Scott, don't worry. I feel the same way about Obama as I do Bush. And it has nothing to do with their personalities but with their policies. I also think it might be a leap of logic to claim that just because no further terrorist attacks occurred that this means Bush prevented them. But that's probably a whole other discussion... :) Scott, don’t worry. I feel the same way about Obama as I do Bush. And it has nothing to do with their personalities but with their policies.

I also think it might be a leap of logic to claim that just because no further terrorist attacks occurred that this means Bush prevented them.

But that’s probably a whole other discussion… :)

]]> By: Scott Francken http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32374 Scott Francken Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:10:38 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32374 Good article Travis. I would agree that a lot of us are really libertarians at heart, and in the practical ways we live our lives. I would be more interested in the Libertarian party if they didn't always come up with such nutty candidates. I know there are a lot of rabid Ron Paul fans out there, but can you seriously see him as our president? He looks like a small troll. And as shallow as that sounds, appearance is still important to a lot of countries we deal with. The times I heard him speak did not dispel my opinions of him either. The Libs need to get an attractive, charismatic person to head their ticket and I think you'll see some interesting politics. One comment about GWB. I am so tired of everyone always bashing on him and saying what a horrible president he was. I didn't like how he expanded government, but he was not a horrible person or a horrible president. I am quite sure history will be kinder to him than most people are now. Whatever else you might say, he prevented any further 9/11 attacks from happening on American soil. And he did a lot of good things that never got reported in the media because they didn't want to run anything that made him look good. Some of it was because he didn't try to be public about being good, like Clinton was so good at doing. I find it so odd that there is such an intense, very personal hatred of Bush by so many, as if he personally went to their house and punched them in the face. I don't understand that level of vitriol. I have utter contempt for all of Obama's policies, but I'm sure if I met him he would be interesting and charming. Good article Travis. I would agree that a lot of us are really libertarians at heart, and in the practical ways we live our lives. I would be more interested in the Libertarian party if they didn’t always come up with such nutty candidates. I know there are a lot of rabid Ron Paul fans out there, but can you seriously see him as our president? He looks like a small troll. And as shallow as that sounds, appearance is still important to a lot of countries we deal with. The times I heard him speak did not dispel my opinions of him either. The Libs need to get an attractive, charismatic person to head their ticket and I think you’ll see some interesting politics.
One comment about GWB. I am so tired of everyone always bashing on him and saying what a horrible president he was. I didn’t like how he expanded government, but he was not a horrible person or a horrible president. I am quite sure history will be kinder to him than most people are now. Whatever else you might say, he prevented any further 9/11 attacks from happening on American soil. And he did a lot of good things that never got reported in the media because they didn’t want to run anything that made him look good. Some of it was because he didn’t try to be public about being good, like Clinton was so good at doing. I find it so odd that there is such an intense, very personal hatred of Bush by so many, as if he personally went to their house and punched them in the face. I don’t understand that level of vitriol. I have utter contempt for all of Obama’s policies, but I’m sure if I met him he would be interesting and charming.

]]> By: Shane Deal http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32373 Shane Deal Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:57:39 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32373 I'm starting to lean more libertarian, I've been finding myself getting a little more peeved by more of Obama's policies then I thought I would be. (Even though I would consider myself an Obama supporter.) I like the guy a lot, but I'm not sure I'm happy with his policies. Voting for him again next round? Depends entirely on the rest of the political spectrum at the time and what he does during the first round. I do believe I am beginning to lean a little more away from the democratic party. You're right about him being similar to George W. Bush. I do like some of the stuff he is doing but I am also not happy with some of the other things he's doing. He's not changing enough, or he's not changing in the right direction, unfortunately, more often then not. Granted he has only been in for about 3 and 1/2 months, but still based on the feel of those 3 and 1/2 months I think I can see what you mean. To me he feels more like Clinton then Bush, but I see the similarity. (I like Clinton too.) I definitely agree with some of what you're saying, but I am still an Obama supporter. (For now.) I've really liked him from the moment I first heard him five years ago when he was just starting out as Senator for Illinois. I think some of my friends might be at the tea party. I have yet to abandon liberalism for libertarianism. I wouldn't be surprised if I do eventually, especially once I begin to understand how things work a bit more. Good point about most people not realizing they're really libertarians. As for me I have a lot to think through about it. See if it is really the direction I wish to take my views in. -Shane I’m starting to lean more libertarian, I’ve been finding myself getting a little more peeved by more of Obama’s policies then I thought I would be. (Even though I would consider myself an Obama supporter.) I like the guy a lot, but I’m not sure I’m happy with his policies. Voting for him again next round? Depends entirely on the rest of the political spectrum at the time and what he does during the first round. I do believe I am beginning to lean a little more away from the democratic party.

You’re right about him being similar to George W. Bush. I do like some of the stuff he is doing but I am also not happy with some of the other things he’s doing. He’s not changing enough, or he’s not changing in the right direction, unfortunately, more often then not. Granted he has only been in for about 3 and 1/2 months, but still based on the feel of those 3 and 1/2 months I think I can see what you mean. To me he feels more like Clinton then Bush, but I see the similarity. (I like Clinton too.)

I definitely agree with some of what you’re saying, but I am still an Obama supporter. (For now.) I’ve really liked him from the moment I first heard him five years ago when he was just starting out as Senator for Illinois.

I think some of my friends might be at the tea party. I have yet to abandon liberalism for libertarianism. I wouldn’t be surprised if I do eventually, especially once I begin to understand how things work a bit more.

Good point about most people not realizing they’re really libertarians. As for me I have a lot to think through about it. See if it is really the direction I wish to take my views in.

-Shane

]]> By: Travis Prinzi http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32371 Travis Prinzi Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:01:10 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32371 <strong>Scott</strong>, good points, except that I wouldn't use "admirable" to describe the job Obama's doing. No, I didn't think he'd shrink the size of government. But I agree with <strong>revgeorge</strong> that he's making a big mess bigger, because it's mostly a continuation of the same policies, sometimes worse. The only thing I'd say as a caveat is that because of Iraq, it's likely Bush made a bigger mess in the past 8 years than Obama would have in the same period of time. Scott, good points, except that I wouldn’t use “admirable” to describe the job Obama’s doing. No, I didn’t think he’d shrink the size of government. But I agree with revgeorge that he’s making a big mess bigger, because it’s mostly a continuation of the same policies, sometimes worse.

The only thing I’d say as a caveat is that because of Iraq, it’s likely Bush made a bigger mess in the past 8 years than Obama would have in the same period of time.

]]> By: Stacey http://perilousrealm.net/2009/04/14/going-to-a-tea-party/comment-page-1/#comment-32366 Stacey Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:30:15 +0000 http://perilousrealm.net/?p=828#comment-32366 Our's is at 5 and I'm gonna try hard to go! BOO TO BIG TAXING! Our’s is at 5 and I’m gonna try hard to go! BOO TO BIG TAXING!

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