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	<title>Comments on: The Night of Weeping</title>
	<atom:link href="http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/</link>
	<description>Looking for Rivendell in Rochester, NY</description>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19837</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 04:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19837</guid>
		<description>Ha!  Well, after all that work last time, it turned out to be fairly easy, didn&#039;t it?  Copy and paste everything into the new directory, and then point RR at the new name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha!  Well, after all that work last time, it turned out to be fairly easy, didn&#8217;t it?  Copy and paste everything into the new directory, and then point RR at the new name.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 03:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19835</guid>
		<description>Changing domain names?

I&#039;ll clear my calendar ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Changing domain names?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll clear my calendar &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Prinzi</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19818</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Prinzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 12:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19818</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Patrick&lt;/strong&gt;, thanks for your comments.  I think had you been following this blog for years (not that I&#039;d expect you to, of course!) and read the stuff I&#039;ve written on the sacraments, you&#039;d know I don&#039;t define the essentials as simply, &quot;I love Jesus.&quot;  Because I believe Christ himself is offered in the sacraments, sacramentology is an essential part of Christology.

So, no, I&#039;m not redefining essentials to exclude the sacraments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Patrick</strong>, thanks for your comments.  I think had you been following this blog for years (not that I&#8217;d expect you to, of course!) and read the stuff I&#8217;ve written on the sacraments, you&#8217;d know I don&#8217;t define the essentials as simply, &#8220;I love Jesus.&#8221;  Because I believe Christ himself is offered in the sacraments, sacramentology is an essential part of Christology.</p>
<p>So, no, I&#8217;m not redefining essentials to exclude the sacraments.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Kyle</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19808</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 04:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19808</guid>
		<description>Travis,

    I&#039;ve lurked here occasionally, and participate regularly over on IMonk&#039;s blog.  Lately there has been agreat deal of discussion about Jesus shaped spirituality, and while initially I find much to agree with, something has bothered me about it that I couldn&#039;t put my finger on until your post clarified it.  
       
 You said &quot;It’s a “great mystery;” and it’s entirely about Christ. All the elders and deacons Paul writes about in the preceding verses are supposed to be upholding this confession. Christ: incarnation, death, resurrection, witness, gospel proclamation, faith, ascension and kingship. Surprise! We all believe this. Calvinists, Arminians, Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics. We all uphold that confession of Christ; and when we add to Christ, making other things “absolutely necessary” in order to either be saved or to get the church functioning as it should, we’ve gone beyond Paul; and we’re murdering the phrase, “pillar of truth” if we think that quoting it justifies our exclusion of anyone who doesn’t jive with the finer points of our confessional documents. It really is all about Jesus.&quot;

   What you are doing is to subtly redefine the essentials of the faith, that we all can supposedly agree upon, to exclude some very central  things.   While we all agree on  &quot;Christ: incarnation, death, resurrection, witness, gospel proclamation, faith, ascension and kingship,&quot;  the vast majority of believers, now and historically have held the sacraments to be a central and integral part of the faith.  Baptism and the Lord&#039;s Supper are commanded by Christ and carry with them His promise of life, salvation and forgiveness.  Baptism is the Christ ordained entry point into His Kingdom and the indelible mark upon all those who are His.  The Lord&#039;s Supper is the fellowship of His Body and Blood and what joins the members of His Body together. The Scriptures say we are one body because we partake of one loaf.  The Sacraments are intricately involved in who Jesus is and His work in us.  These aren&#039;t  things &quot;we add to Christ, making other things “absolutely necessary” in order to either be saved or to get the church functioning as it should, &quot; these are central to being a Christian for the vast majority of believers since Christ instituted them.   
      To say that a church is being divisive because they endeavor to be responsible with their Communion practice, or  they expect their members to have a certain amount of instruction in the Sacraments before they allow participation, is wrong.  While I don&#039;t agree with strictly closed communion, the fact is that faithful pastors since the apostles have practiced it,in every tradition, and defend it as pastorally responsible.  Open Communion to anyone who presents themselves at the altar is a fairly recent trend and if looked at from a historical point of view could be seen as  a cause of division. It is the new innovation and departs from how believers have interpreted the Scripture for two millenia.  This has caused some deep soul searching on my part.  I still am wrestling with it.  
     However, I don&#039;t mean to drag this comment thread into a debate on the LS or closed communion. (And I will engage in no debate on that subject.) My point is that your definition of the &quot;essentials&quot;  fails to grasp some very important points and attempts to put responsibility for schisms in the Church on those who would maintain a strong attachment to the Sacraments. I think this is wrong and deserves further thought on your part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis,</p>
<p>    I&#8217;ve lurked here occasionally, and participate regularly over on IMonk&#8217;s blog.  Lately there has been agreat deal of discussion about Jesus shaped spirituality, and while initially I find much to agree with, something has bothered me about it that I couldn&#8217;t put my finger on until your post clarified it.  </p>
<p> You said &#8220;It’s a “great mystery;” and it’s entirely about Christ. All the elders and deacons Paul writes about in the preceding verses are supposed to be upholding this confession. Christ: incarnation, death, resurrection, witness, gospel proclamation, faith, ascension and kingship. Surprise! We all believe this. Calvinists, Arminians, Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics. We all uphold that confession of Christ; and when we add to Christ, making other things “absolutely necessary” in order to either be saved or to get the church functioning as it should, we’ve gone beyond Paul; and we’re murdering the phrase, “pillar of truth” if we think that quoting it justifies our exclusion of anyone who doesn’t jive with the finer points of our confessional documents. It really is all about Jesus.&#8221;</p>
<p>   What you are doing is to subtly redefine the essentials of the faith, that we all can supposedly agree upon, to exclude some very central  things.   While we all agree on  &#8220;Christ: incarnation, death, resurrection, witness, gospel proclamation, faith, ascension and kingship,&#8221;  the vast majority of believers, now and historically have held the sacraments to be a central and integral part of the faith.  Baptism and the Lord&#8217;s Supper are commanded by Christ and carry with them His promise of life, salvation and forgiveness.  Baptism is the Christ ordained entry point into His Kingdom and the indelible mark upon all those who are His.  The Lord&#8217;s Supper is the fellowship of His Body and Blood and what joins the members of His Body together. The Scriptures say we are one body because we partake of one loaf.  The Sacraments are intricately involved in who Jesus is and His work in us.  These aren&#8217;t  things &#8220;we add to Christ, making other things “absolutely necessary” in order to either be saved or to get the church functioning as it should, &#8221; these are central to being a Christian for the vast majority of believers since Christ instituted them.<br />
      To say that a church is being divisive because they endeavor to be responsible with their Communion practice, or  they expect their members to have a certain amount of instruction in the Sacraments before they allow participation, is wrong.  While I don&#8217;t agree with strictly closed communion, the fact is that faithful pastors since the apostles have practiced it,in every tradition, and defend it as pastorally responsible.  Open Communion to anyone who presents themselves at the altar is a fairly recent trend and if looked at from a historical point of view could be seen as  a cause of division. It is the new innovation and departs from how believers have interpreted the Scripture for two millenia.  This has caused some deep soul searching on my part.  I still am wrestling with it.<br />
     However, I don&#8217;t mean to drag this comment thread into a debate on the LS or closed communion. (And I will engage in no debate on that subject.) My point is that your definition of the &#8220;essentials&#8221;  fails to grasp some very important points and attempts to put responsibility for schisms in the Church on those who would maintain a strong attachment to the Sacraments. I think this is wrong and deserves further thought on your part.</p>
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		<title>By: grub</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19803</link>
		<dc:creator>grub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19803</guid>
		<description>lol...I was just going to link this from the BHT...Michael beat me to it...Excellent stuff Travis...thanks for putting it down on paper...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol&#8230;I was just going to link this from the BHT&#8230;Michael beat me to it&#8230;Excellent stuff Travis&#8230;thanks for putting it down on paper&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: internetmonk.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Riffs: 05:03:08: The Night of Weeping and A Jesus Shaped Spirituality</title>
		<link>http://perilousrealm.net/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/comment-page-1/#comment-19776</link>
		<dc:creator>internetmonk.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Riffs: 05:03:08: The Night of Weeping and A Jesus Shaped Spirituality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 18:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.restlessreformer.com/2008/05/02/the-night-of-weeping/#comment-19776</guid>
		<description>[...] fellow and Harry Potter blogger Travis Pinzi eloquently pens his take on a Jesus-centered spirituality in this meditation on a wonde.... Though with a scornful wonder, men see her sore oppressed By schisms rent asunder, by heresies [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fellow and Harry Potter blogger Travis Pinzi eloquently pens his take on a Jesus-centered spirituality in this meditation on a wonde&#8230;. Though with a scornful wonder, men see her sore oppressed By schisms rent asunder, by heresies [...]</p>
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