This is the problem with so much political commentary: no nuance, no deep thought…just a bunch of shallow categories in which to force people. What, exactly, does “Obama stand for now in light of his mentor,” when he’s consistently denounced Wright’s extreme statements? And what media are you listening to? The media I’ve been listening to hasn’t been saying “all is well, vote for Obama.” It’s been running endless loops of Wright’s most extreme statements, playing guilt-by-assocation, and asking Obama to please not talk about race, it’s not really important. I heard it again just last night on ABC news.

I’ve been trying to listen to people who have known the man for 20, 30 years. And then I’ve been listening to the commentary of Hannity et al, and the conclusion seems pretty simple to me: the people who have known him and heard him say he’s not a hateful person, those comments don’t represent the norm; they put his preaching in its proper context (prophetic-style preaching of African American churches) so they can understand it better. Hannity et al simply throw around phrases like “America-hater.”

Wright is not a “black supremacist,” even if he does hold bigotry towards whites.

Buy some videos yourself from his church web site if they are still selling them. Amuse yourself listening to his diatribe of hate. He has no use for white people, period. Except if you hate the USA or are an enemy of the country.

No one can have a legitimate discussion of race in his context, that is like asking Osama bin Laden to discuss his views on Christianity.

The black value system Wright preaches is the worst racist concoction ever excused. Apologists are all over themselves thinking of how it can be moderated to the average Joe on the street. The media is busy polishing this turd as best they can.

The average folk in America do not buy the message of the media that all is well, please vote for Obama. Many Americans will not forget what Obama stands for now in the light of his mentor. It matters not what political persuasion you are.

Speaking of that, would anyone out there vote for a person, White, Asian, or Hispanic, running for any public office if they said a white supremacist, (pick any) was their mentor?

Not hardly.

BTW, I live down the 90 in Buffalo. If you ever are in town and want to have a concoction of barley, hops, water and yeast, let me know.

I’ll comment more in the newest thread

Ah, NOW it all makes a lot more sense!

I’ll have to get to your points another time. It’s late and I need to sleep.

Mr. Wright has called Israel a terrorist state. He has said the USA is responsible for killing more people than any other nation. And he has praised Nelson Mandela. I don’t think you said any of that.

Now to comment on some of your points.

My reason for the questions I would ask to Mr. Wright in #1 and 2 is based on his suggestions that the USA is a racist country. My point is that if his premise is correct then whites should not only be killing more blacks than blacks themselves do, it should be disproportionately so. But, that isn’t the case, it’s not even close. No, I don’t think it is because blacks are by nature more prone to crime than whites are. Poverty may have something to do with it, but I think the fact that illegitimacy is far higher in the black community than in the white has far more to do with it. And, I think that explains both the high crime and poverty rates in the black community. Note that crime rates fell during the great depression.

I asked question #3 because I wonder if the black community would accept McCain saying that he disagreed with David Duke and disagreed with his pastor giving Duke some kind of award, if that hypothetical scenario took place. Or, would McCain actually have to leave that church. Let me speak for myself here, I would not continue to be a member of a church that gave either Farrakhan or Duke any kind of award.

I brought up the Israeli/Palestinian question only because of Wright’s comment on it.

Wright is an admirer of Mandela. To be honest, I think one of the great disservices ever done by the mass media in the United States is that this man (Mandela I mean) is almost idolized. If you polled the American people as to the political beliefs of Mandela, I would wager that it would be a very small number that said Marxist or Communist. Nor do most of them have any idea what necklacing is.

On the final point. I didn’t vote for Mike Huckabee, but I think he had a good point on the subject of illegal immigration. To paraphrase him, we ought to get on our knees each night and thank God that we live in a nation that people are trying to break into instead of one that people are trying to get out of.

To your first three points, I agree, and well-said. Now, to the others:

1. But why is this? Surely you’re not saying that blacks are by nature more violent and prone to kill than whites. I think the answer to this lies in the culture that comes out of poverty and oppression. I’m not excusing crime, but it’s important to note that sin doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It occurs in a context, and in this instance, I think white privilege and oppression of blacks has created that context.

2. What you’re saying is true, but again, the reason why is important.

3. Barack has repudiated Farrakahn and has been clear that there are things Wright says with which he disagrees.

4 – 5. This is a conversation for another place and time than this thread. I want to focus our attention here on white and black in America. (Also, where did I write about the US supporting state terrorism?)

6. Where did I talk about Nelson Mandela?

7. I’m not saying the US is the most miserable place in the world to live. It’s the place of best opportunity for everyone. But is it wrong to continue to try to make it better? (And where do I say that the US is responsible for killing more people than any other nation?)

1. None of us will actually look at this issue objectively. Of course that is true of every issue. We all come to every issue with our own set of biases, prejudices, presuppositions and so forth. So let’s dispense with the notion that we can somehow be objective.

2. Related to point #1 I will never see this issue the same way someone who is black and grew up in the inner city of Detroit (or whatever big city you wish to put in here) does. Conversely, that person will never see it in the same way that someone who is white and grew up in rural Georgia sees it either. And I think it is also fair to say that whites who grew up in an area where there were not many blacks (such as Vermont or Maine for example) don’t have the same perspective as a white person from Alabama or Mississippi.

3. If one accepts that my first two points are correct, then he should be respectful of those who come at this issue from another perspective.

So, having said those three things I want to pose some questions to Mr. Wright, or any other black person who shares his perspective (or white person for that matter).

1. If for the next 365 days I gave you a dollar for every black person that was killed by a white and you gave me a dollar for every black person that was killed by another black person which of us do you think would have more money at the end of that year?

2. Since I brought up money in question #1, let’s make a wager. This wager is based on the assumption that Barack Obama wins the Democratic nomination, which I think he will. I’ll bet you $1,000.00 that Obama will receive a higher percentage of the white vote than McCain will receive of that black vote. We’ll donate the money to the charity of the winner’s choice. Anybody willing to bet against me on that?

3. If John McCain’s pastor gave a humanitarian award to David Duke would it be enough for John McCain to say that he doesn’t agree with his pastor on that matter?

4. You have accused the United States of supporting state terrorism against the Palestinians. I am assuming that you are referring to the United States’ long support of Israel. You said this in September of 2001. Less than a year before you said this, President Clinton, in a meeting with Israeli PM Ehud Barak and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat, arranged an agreement that would have created a Palestinian state. Was it Barak or Arafat who refused to sign the agreement? Oh, and in a similar question to question #1, I’ll give you a dollar for every Palestinian killed by an Israeli and you give me a dollar for every Palestinian killed by another Palestinian, no change that, just give me a dollar for every Palestinian killed by Hamas. Let’s just do it for a year again and see who has more money.

5. Speaking of Israel, who said “Israel makes the Nazi state look very moderate in terms of its views.”? Here’s a hint, his 1st name is the name of the guy in the Bible who killed Goliath, his last name is the name of a Methodist school in North Carolina well known for its mens basketball program and I mentioned him in question #3.

6. You speak with high praise for Nelson Mandela. Do this for me. Go to a search engine like google or yahoo and do a search on his name along with the word “necklacing.” What did you find out?

7. The United States is responsible for killing more people than any other country in the world, according to you anyway. You also say that the United States is run by “rich, white guys.” So, are there more black/African people trying to get into or out of this country which is responsible for more deaths than any other and run by “rich, white guys.”?